Over the years there have been many objections to the idea of a historical basis for the Iliad and its portrayal of an extended war. During the first generations of archaeology at the site of Troy under Schliemann and Blegen, only the citadel was uncovered and mistaken for the whole city. For those who believed that a great war had been fought over this city, the small size was a major obstacle. How could this be the fabled city of golden riches that controlled the watery “superhighway” through the Hellespont?
For seventeen years, until his death in 2005, Manfred Korfmann conducted an archaeological dig at Troy called the Troia Project run by the University of Tubingen and the University of Cincinnati. This modern dig uncovered the full extent of the city, including the lower city, where the majority of residents and activities took place. Now it was clear that Troy was one of the larger Anatolian cities of the period during which we would place the Trojan War.
Moreover, Korfmann and other archaeologists used the prevalence of Anatolian-style pottery and Anatolian architecture, among other signs, to refute the notion that Troy was a Greek city. In conjunction with the written records from the Hittite capital of Hattusa, this evidence placed Troy within the Hittite circle of influence and within the Anatolian cultural milieu. In those written records we hear about conflicts between the region of Troy and the Greeks throughout the Late Bronze Age.
In a 2004 article for Archaeology, an online publication of the Archaeology Institute of America, Korfmann gave his answer to the question, “Did the Trojan War really happen?” In his final summary he put it this way:
“According to the archaeological and historical findings of the past decade especially, it is now more likely than not that there were several armed conflicts in and around Troy at the end of the Late Bronze Age. At present we do not know whether all or some of these conflicts were distilled in later memory into the “Trojan War” or whether among them there was an especially memorable, single “Trojan War.” However, everything currently suggests that Homer should be taken seriously, that his story of a military conflict between Greeks and the inhabitants of Troy is based on a memory of historical events–whatever these may have been. If someone came up to me at the excavation one day and expressed his or her belief that the Trojan War did indeed happen here, my response as an archaeologist working at Troy would be: Why not?”
I encourage you to enjoy his complete article Was There a Trojan War?.
Thanks again. I was just wondering how many inhabitants lived in Troy at this time. Your articles are going to make a historian of me.
What a good question! It’s notoriously hard to estimate ancient populations so I will quote Trevor Bryce (The Trojans and Their Neighbours) quoting Korfmann and take cover in their expertise: “Korfmann estimates that Troy’s entire population, enclosed within his proposed city wall and including the residents of the citadel, was somewhere between 4,000 and 10,000 inhabitants at the height of Level VI’s development. But the number of persons belonging to the kingdom of Troy may well have been significantly larger, allowing for an extra-mural population who lived and worked in outlying rural areas that perhaps formed part of the kingdom’s territory.”
did they find any evidence leading to the trojan war????
The evidence for the existence of Troy is at this point pretty incontrovertible, although that doesn’t stop a couple determined scholars from disagreeing. The evidence for the Trojan War is a separate issue.
You asked is there evidence of the Trojan War. The short answer is no.
The complex answer that reflects what we know about the historical context of the period involves, in part, this information: There are signs of burning and warfare at the appropriate level of Troy to correspond to the period in the Late Bronze Age when most plausibly a “Trojan War” would have occurred–very, very roughly about 1200 BCE or somewhat earlier. But despite those hints, there isn’t a clear archaeological level that was certainly destroyed by a big war that also looks like it would match the “Homeric” Troy. Certainly a 10 year large scale conflict seems quite implausible, but raids/skirmishes involving the communities along the Western coast of Anatolia and the Mycenaean Greeks are documented in letters and treaties found at the Hittite capital of Hattusa. “ten” and other numbers are often used in a symbolic way to mean something like “a lot” in ancient texts so I’m not sure anyone in the original audiences of the Homeric poems would have understood a literal 10 year war. My personal opinion is that the poems combine Near Eastern literary traditions (Gilgamesh, Hittite mythology, etc), remembered historic events (smaller and less significant than those depicted in the poem), various historic figures built into legendary heroes with a good deal of “add-on” to their portraits and deeds. So my answer, only one opinion and definitely not “evidence” is that at its core there is some history in the Iliad but to read it in some literal form is to go far astray from historical reality. At some point another “library” of tablets may be uncovered in the western region of Anatolia and answer more of our questions, but until that time, it’s better to talk about the Luwian, Hittite, etc context which we do know a great deal about, the treaties, wars, kings, etc that we do know about and leave the “Trojan War” as an extraordinary icon in the Western Tradition–highly influential on our way of viewing ourselves and our history, but not quite “history” itself, but rather something greater and less tangible.
Hi, just in regards to the timeline of the Iliad, would the Astronomical references in the Odyssey help?
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/24/science/24home.html
Odysseus returns after 10 years of wandering on April 16, 1178 B.C…. Troy falls 1188 B.C. But then I like the idea of both the Iliad and Odyssey being fairly accurate, so I am not truely impartial.
I enjoyed the NY Times article you linked to. Thanks for bringing it to my attention! From the article I gather there seems to be a lot of skepticism among scholars about the transmission of the memory of a total eclipse, but frankly Homer’s traditional oral language preserves a lot of information he didn’t fully recognize, so I don’t think it’s impossible. I’m with you in liking to think there’s a good deal of history in the poems, so thanks for teaching me about this fascinating piece of science and history combined.
So is it correct to say that Achilles, Prince Paris and Prince Hector did not exsist? I am new to studying Greek History and have found so many conflicting stories on this!
Hi Kristi, In a treaty between the Hittite Empire and Troy there is a mention of a prince with a name similar to Alexandros (Paris’s other name) which may or may not be an indication that the name was used in the royal family and/or a Paris/Alexandros existed. Certainly the characters we meet in Homer are developed into greater than life characters over generations of bardic tradition, if in fact there were ever living people with these names and basic roles. In Homer Achilles is half-immortal–not so historically believable! I don’t think it matters whether there ever existed princes/kings by these names. A ten year war also seems utterly unlikely, but a shorter war or period of regular raiding, seems pretty likely. And the leaders of those raids were Mycenaean kings and the defenders were Trojan princes, whatever their names and personalities might have been. Best not to take Homer literally but to respect the poems as a useful repository of information, some mythic some historic, all of it profound and beautiful.
Just read Achilles’ soliloquy in book 10 of the Fagles’ translation while listening to the Derek Jacobi audiobook. So realistic and powerful, it makes me believe there must be some truth to the story’s essence — a disastrous dispute between two men on the same side in a battle.
Hi Paul, I didn’t realize Derek Jacobi had recorded the audiobook. He’s just right for that job.
I also feel there is a real set of circumstances at the root of the epic. I also think there’s a good deal of Anatolian mythology that got layered onto the Achilles tradition. I’ve tried through my fiction to show the connection between Achilles and the Hittite/Anatolian god Telipinu and the similarities in their stories. Fiction is an interesting way to deal with such scholarly ideas–the tale-telling is the predominant concern, but I’m looking forward to talking to a variety of audiences about the underlying ideas about myth and history when my book comes out (which it’s looking like it will, yeah!, but not for a bit).
Dear Judith
The power and drama of the Illiad are so extreme compared to even Shakespeare in my view. Do historians attach more historical weight to intricate dramatic accounts than to more bland texts, or is the Illiad merely a product of a literary genius? Brian ( scientist)
Hi Brian,
Certainly the Iliad has a particularly strong hold on the historical imagination. I think that’s partly because of its literary genius–a bad poem just wouldn’t have come to be so central. The Iliad was the dominant piece of literature for the Greeks and I think it has held its spot ever since. For so many generations who have seen themselves as the “inheritors of Western Civilization” it holds the iconic position of honor. I think for the most recent generations to find that it does indeed reflect historical reality has renewed Homer’s importance at a time when there are many more competing texts we admire.
Hi Judith
Thank you for the reply that was a nice surprise
Yes indeed the general public like me are easily hoodwinked into accepting pseudo history, in my field (industrial Chemistry) we moan endlessly about pseudo science being plugged for profit for example.
I really enjoyed your article, your script is very accessible to non-specialists. In my case I am able to read between the lines a bit, in that the dig evidence may be interpreted in different ways just like my experiments. You have much less evidence to work on than most science projects and you work hard to draw sensible conclusions, which naturally evolve with new evidence and debate.
You remind me of my favourite historian Michael Wood, who writes for the public really well just like you. In his landmark book In search of … he poses key questions to make the readers think for themselves about the issues with Troy, which seem very complex to me.
Evidence of a citadel plus large lower town dating from the right time period with evidence of destruction seems very attractive, but as u state cannot be interpreted as a large singular war.
May I ask a question on this …
What would constitute evidence for a singular destructive battle as opposed to disparate conflicts spanning centuries, is it purely about dating results and volumes of residues?
Kind Regards
Brian
A mystery for me is how a collection of oral transmissions was collated and turned into a masterpiece of such detail and raw emotion. Surely even a genius would struggle to do this. Worse still we do not know even if there was a Homer or instead a group of writers spanning years if I have understood correctly?
It is the detail in the Illiad that makes me a believer, for some strange reason I believe the historical record without question, though I should know better being a scientist!
I first read the Illiad in children’s form when I was 10, no book has had a bigger impact on me, I am buying a kids copy to read with my 8 year old daughter, who wants to be a historian no less! She has the bug and a ferocious intellect inherited from her gran. She watches Bettany Hughes who is her role model …
Hi Brian, I think you’ve left 2 ?’s for me.
Regarding how we’d recognize evidence for a single destructive battle that went for ten years as opposed to a series of destructions and small battles? Well, there would only be one massive layer of destruction, but you’re right it would be hard to know for sure how to interpret pretty much any evidence in a way that we could say “ah ha, just like the Iliad”. Personally I don’t think it happened just like the Iliad, so I wouldn’t go looking for that, nor are the archaeologists at the current dig at Troy approaching things that way. Do get the book I recently reviewed by Eric Cline, Troy a Very Brief Introduction by Oxford University Press. You’ll find my review under “Judith’s Reviews”.
2. How could such a brilliant piece of lit like Iliad happen orally fr multiple authors? I’m inclined to believe one genius gave it final form right about the time writing had been found again and some clever soul gradually wrote down that brilliant version. Or some such thing, but that’s just my happy daydream. We’ll never know, but thank goodness for the Iliad in its current form. Glad you have loved it for so many years and have passed that on to your daughter. That’s the best!
Hi Judith
Great tip I will start by reading this book and the Michael Wood book revised.
It is obvious as you say that major battles would have left huge deposits and that this is not the case so does not figure in the general mindset.
Technical question ..
Experts have examined the prose, styles, hexameters etc of the Illiad for decades and more, is there any linguistic evidence that it could not have written by one person, or is it deemed seamless and def a singular masterpiece?
Regarding Hittite research, there seems to be too few mentions of the conflict from this region to justify a major war, such a huge conflict would have made a significant literary mark all around the region, for this reason alone I would argue for prolonged skirmishes.
What can academics around the world do to help? In my view we continue to trawl new literary sources from churches etc in the region, has the Vatican ever offered access to documents that could assist?
For now at home we will begin with my peerless retelling of the wrath of Achilles, the fight for Helen and the gods tormenting men! My daughter buys it all so it doesn’t need to be too accurate for now.
Kind regards
Brian
well i believe that it did happen becase if u read it carefully it says that there was evidence
This is very interesting! What is your opinion on whether the war happened and if so where?
I think there were raids and ongoing conflicts between the Mycenaean settlements and leaders and the Hittites–we see that in the written record. There were definitely conflicts with Troy. I don’t think there was a literal 10 year war. The Iliad has many elements that are borrowed from the Hittite mythology and other non “historical” elements which make it a great tale, but not to be taken too precisely.
i think that the trojan war did happen but it just didnt happen the way the way that they said it probably happened because they did not like each other and they wanted to see which person was the strongest
My issue with referring the location that is described as Troy by the author is that, yes we can call it Troy, but if it is not the Troy of the Trojan war, than it would be like Talking about London Ontario like it is London England. If the Trojan war did not occur at this location that is now described as Troy (was it even called Troy in ancient times), then it is irrelevant. It is still possible that the war that is described occurred, but not at this site. Over thousand of years that would have more than likely been conflicts in the areas of almost all the cities in the region. I also remember when I was young how amazed people were that a Celtic statue was found in Romania. For some reason in the time of Schliemann there was a belief that in ancient times people did not travel extensive distances, which seems to be so false. Napoleon’s army marched pretty much on foot from France to Moscow. Why couldn’t ancient people. My question is, what are more obvious sites for the battle. It does not seem to be at the location that has been called Troy in modern times.
Hey Judith,
We are having a debate in class and the topic is whether the Trojan War was real. Could you help us and list some facts that prove it wasn’t real? Things like the likelihood of around 30 men hiding in a horse and destroying a whole city. Thanks for your time!
Well, if you read this article and the others on this website on this topic, you’ll have a lot of the answers, as much as a definitive answer can exist. Here are the titles of each of the articles on this website: Troy: History or Myth?, The Trojan War: History or Myth, Review of The Trojan War (that one will act as a recommendation of the best short book on the subject, Eric Cline’s The Trojan War: A Very Short Introduction which is part of the Oxford University Press series. As to that horse: there was a recent PBS episode of Secrets of the Dead about the Trojan War that focused a lot on that horse. I recommend you watch that. I suspect it’s just a good story, but the show thinks otherwise. They propose various siege engine theories, etc.
I think Troy as described by Homer is a Hellenisation of a Pellasgian battle which happened in Europe, not Turkey. There is evidence to support this.
Troia, Illeon, why 2 names?
Hellenes were good at story telling.
I know there are a few people who think Troy happened in Europe not Turkey. I find the overwhelming evidence that we are correct in placing it in modern Turkey entirely persuasive. Most of the arguments against it are tinged with more than a little bigotry against Turkey and its Ottoman/Muslim modern traditions (modern by my ancient historian’s perspective, you understand). So read those arguments with caution.
You say there is overwhelming evidence, but not what the evidence is. There may have been a battle at the site of where Troy is believed to exist in Turkey, but there is just not the space there to have an epic battle (and chariots would have been pretty much useless), and there is no good motivation unless you consider Helen worth fighting for 10 years (the end of which she would have been an old woman given the time the war took). The only site I can think of in Turkey that would have had any great value is Istanbul. The belief that Troy is in Turkey goes back a century when history was extremely Egypt/Greek/Roman centric and it was not believed there was much of significance outside of the Greek/Egyptian realm at that time. There was a lot more happening in Europe than just what was happening in Greece.
Actually this post and others on my website do discuss a lot of the evidence. And they point to other sources where you can examine it in further detail. It would take volumes to lay out all the archaeological, philological and documentary evidence that points to the northwestern shore of Anatolia as the site of Troy. A quick place to see that evidence in sum besides these articles of mine is Eric Cline’s The Trojan War A Very Short Introduction. You are confusing a literal read of the Iliad with historical reality. The Iliad is an epic poem, not a history lesson. Read widely and develop a more sophisticated and accurate sense of the role of Homer in our understanding of the ancient world, and I think you will find that the evidence makes plenty of sense. I agree that a lot happened in Europe besides in Greece. Look at the Bronze Age archaeology coming out regularly recently from northern Europe. But I also would say that a lot happened in what we now call Turkey and that that area was neglected as a source of civilization far more than Europe has been. I don’t know why you are so opposed to seeing that as a possibility, but whatever is preventing you isn’t based in solid historical and archaeological reality.
If the Trojan war did really happen. The purpose in the Iliad is to retrieve helen. Paris essentially stole her or she left Greece. When I looked up these people Helen and even Achilles were proved not real. So what was the reason or motive for the Greeks to fight Troy or vice-versa?
The Iliad is an oral epic poem that incorporates elements of history, myth and legend. It was never meant to be a historical telling of the Trojan War in the modern sense of “historical”. It was meant to celebrate the heroes such as Achilles and to entertain. The war at the heart of that poem has some basis in reality, but not the precise way it is described, nor are the motives ascribed to the characters in the poem “real” or documentable. It is unlikely that a ten year war of the magnitude described in Homer ever happened. The small raids and interspersed battles that are the more likely historical reality had a number of causes, depending on the skirmish. Some were push back from the western kingdoms against more powerful kingdoms on either side of them trying to exert control, some were for economic control of trade routes, etc. Look at what causes modern wars, and you’ll see similar motivations. Stealing away a queen might actually have been a trigger at some point. We are unlikely ever to know for sure. Don’t confuse legend with history–Homer is a tightly intermix of both, but that is the nature of epic poetry. He wasn’t giving a history lesson.
Trojan war really happened in Europe,in Croatian peninsula called Istria.Troy is an acropolis-town,todays city of Motovun.Simon and Nelson-gave to us the best answers.
Everyone gets to have their own view and I’m sure there’s interesting reasons for your view that Troy was in Croatia, but I think the written evidence from the Hittite archives is so totally conclusive about Troy, along with a whole lot of archaeology, that I’m going to stick to Troy on the western coast of contemporary Turkey just where the scholarly community says it is. But discussion is always useful in the pursuit of the past.
You were right.Our pursuit is a kind of time machine,and I think it sincerely.In the other side there are lot of people overcomed with a material things.
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